[57north-discuss] 57north-discuss Digest, Vol 5, Issue 9
Merlin Tail
merlinstail at gmail.com
Fri Jul 11 15:20:27 UTC 2014
I completely agree with Robert.
If any other members wish to aire their views on political matters it
should be as an individual using their own online accounts or via a
political organisation using official accounts, not those belonging to the
space.
It is entirely hypocritical for members of an open rights group to
impose, by association or other means, a political view onto other members
of 57north. What about members' rights???
On 10 Jul 2014 22:30, <57north-discuss-request at lists.57north.co> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. [james at jarofgreen.co.uk: [Supporter-council] TTIP Twitter
> Jacking Tomorrow!] (Tom Jones)
> 2. 57N taking political positions (Robert McWilliam)
> 3. Re: 57N taking political positions (Iain R. Learmonth)
> 4. Re: 57N taking political positions (Robert McWilliam)
> 5. Re: 57N taking political positions (Rowan Evenstar)
> 6. Re: 57N taking political positions (Edward Watson)
> 7. Re: 57N taking political positions (Iain R. Learmonth)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Jones <jones at sdf.org>
> To: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:52:46 +0100
> Subject: [57north-discuss] [james at jarofgreen.co.uk: [Supporter-council]
TTIP Twitter Jacking Tomorrow!]
> ----- Forwarded message from James Baster <james at jarofgreen.co.uk> -----
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:50:11 +0100
> From: James Baster <james at jarofgreen.co.uk>
> To: supporter-council at lists.openrightsgroup.org
> Subject: [Supporter-council] TTIP Twitter Jacking Tomorrow!
>
> http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1122
>
> They are doing a live twitter session with EU ppl. 10am CET ... so 9am our
> time right?
>
> Time to teach them why live twitter chats on contraversial topics are not
a
> good idea! :-)
>
>
> --
> Tech events around town http://opentechcalendar.co.uk/
> <http://opentechcalendar.co.uk/index.php>
> and collaborative calendars for all http://ican.hasacalendar.co.uk/ (open
> data & open source)
>
> _______________________________________________
> 2014 SC meetings:
>
> - Tuesday 8th July 7:00pm
> - Thursday 11th September 7:00pm
> - Monday 10th November 7:00pm
>
> We meet on IRC:
>
> irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/openrightsgroup
> https://www.openrightsgroup.org/contact/open-rights-group-irc-channel
>
> Supporter-council mailing list
> Supporter-council at lists.openrightsgroup.org
> https://lists.openrightsgroup.org/listinfo/supporter-council
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> Tom | I don't see how we are going to build the dystopian
megapoli
> @adventureloop | we were promised in 80s and early 90s cyberpunk fiction
if
> adventurist.me | you guys keep complaining.
>
> :wq
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robert McWilliam <rmcw at allmail.net>
> To: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:24:13 +0100
> Subject: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
> In one of my rare moments of paying attention to twitter today I noticed
> @57NorthHacklab had tweeted "No Emergency! Stop the Data Retention
> stitch-up! Email your MP now.
>
https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/no-emergency-stop-the-data-retention-stitch-up
"
> https://twitter.com/57NorthHacklab/status/487270406227648512
>
> As much as I might agree with the sentiment I'd rather the space wasn't
> taking a stance on any political issues. I think being as apolitical as
> possible[1] is the only way to be inclusive.
>
> I'm also really uncomfortable with any kind of statement coming from an
> account purporting to be "57 North Hacklab" when it's actually just
> whoever has control of the account and hasn't been discussed by the
> wider group, so there isn't consensus among 57 North that we want to say
> that. I think we need to be careful to keep personal opinions of
> individual members/directors separate from anything purporting to come
> from the whole group.
>
> Robert
>
> [1] There is some politics in the very existence of the space, but I'd
> want that to be the extent of the politics the space is involved in.
> --
> Robert McWilliam rmcw at allmail.net www.ormiret.com
>
> Disclaimer: Opinions cited by me are not necessarily my opinions.
> Facts cited by me are not necessarily facts.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Iain R. Learmonth" <irl at fsfe.org>
> To: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:28:17 +0100
> Subject: Re: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 09:24:13PM +0100, Robert McWilliam wrote:
> > As much as I might agree with the sentiment I'd rather the space wasn't
> > taking a stance on any political issues. I think being as apolitical as
> > possible[1] is the only way to be inclusive.
>
> Two of the directors of the space are on the Open Rights Group Supporter
> Council.
>
> We have run cryptoparties.
>
> We have organised cryptography related workshops.
>
> The space took a stance on these issues a long time ago.
>
> Iain.
>
> --
> e: irl at fsfe.org w: iain.learmonth.me
> x: irl at jabber.fsfe.org t: +447875886930
> c: MM6MVQ g: IO87we
> p: 1F72 607C 5FF2 CCD5 3F01 600D 56FF 9EA4 E984 6C49
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Robert McWilliam <rmcw at allmail.net>
> To: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:50:30 +0100
> Subject: Re: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014, at 09:28 PM, Iain R. Learmonth wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 09:24:13PM +0100, Robert McWilliam wrote:
> > > As much as I might agree with the sentiment I'd rather the space
wasn't
> > > taking a stance on any political issues. I think being as apolitical
as
> > > possible[1] is the only way to be inclusive.
> >
> > Two of the directors of the space are on the Open Rights Group Supporter
> > Council.
>
> And three of the directors work for Aberdeen University - have we taken
> a stance to agree with Aberdeen University? What 57N collectively
> does/agrees with/says is different from what individual or groups of
> members or directors do.
>
> > We have run cryptoparties.
> >
> > We have organised cryptography related workshops.
>
> I see a big difference between sharing information on technology (part
> of the founding purpose of the space) and campaigning on political
> issues.
>
> Robert
>
> --
> Robert McWilliam rmcw at allmail.net www.ormiret.com
>
> Disclaimer: Opinions cited by me are not necessarily my opinions.
> Facts cited by me are not necessarily facts.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rowan Evenstar <zenrhe at gmail.com>
> To: Robert McWilliam <rmcw at allmail.net>
> Cc: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:26:05 +0100
> Subject: Re: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
>
> Sorry top posting. I agree with Rob, im not really happy with that
twitter post and ones that would be similar.
>
> On 10 Jul 2014 21:50, "Robert McWilliam" <rmcw at allmail.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014, at 09:28 PM, Iain R. Learmonth wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 09:24:13PM +0100, Robert McWilliam wrote:
>> > > As much as I might agree with the sentiment I'd rather the space
wasn't
>> > > taking a stance on any political issues. I think being as apolitical
as
>> > > possible[1] is the only way to be inclusive.
>> >
>> > Two of the directors of the space are on the Open Rights Group
Supporter
>> > Council.
>>
>> And three of the directors work for Aberdeen University - have we taken
>> a stance to agree with Aberdeen University? What 57N collectively
>> does/agrees with/says is different from what individual or groups of
>> members or directors do.
>>
>> > We have run cryptoparties.
>> >
>> > We have organised cryptography related workshops.
>>
>> I see a big difference between sharing information on technology (part
>> of the founding purpose of the space) and campaigning on political
>> issues.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> --
>> Robert McWilliam rmcw at allmail.net www.ormiret.com
>>
>> Disclaimer: Opinions cited by me are not necessarily my opinions.
>> Facts cited by me are not necessarily facts.
>> _______________________________________________
>> 57north-discuss mailing list
>> 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
>> http://lists.57north.co/listinfo/57north-discuss
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Edward Watson <mail at edwardwatson.co.uk>
> To: "57north-discuss at lists.57north.co" <57north-discuss at lists.57north.co>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:28:39 +0100
> Subject: Re: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
> Agree with an apolitical stance on Twitter at least. The space is not a
being that can hold political beliefs and is therefore perfect. People are
imperfect and accordingly, political. Iain has mentioned a method to ensure
that any 57N communications on Twitter are attached to a particular
username. I feel this is the way to do controversial Twitter
communications (if we have to have them).
>
> Cheers
> Ed.
>
> On 10 July 2014 21:28, Iain R. Learmonth <irl at fsfe.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 09:24:13PM +0100, Robert McWilliam wrote:
>> > As much as I might agree with the sentiment I'd rather the space wasn't
>> > taking a stance on any political issues. I think being as apolitical as
>> > possible[1] is the only way to be inclusive.
>>
>> Two of the directors of the space are on the Open Rights Group Supporter
>> Council.
>>
>> We have run cryptoparties.
>>
>> We have organised cryptography related workshops.
>>
>> The space took a stance on these issues a long time ago.
>>
>> Iain.
>>
>> --
>> e: irl at fsfe.org w: iain.learmonth.me
>> x: irl at jabber.fsfe.org t: +447875886930
>> c: MM6MVQ g: IO87we
>> p: 1F72 607C 5FF2 CCD5 3F01 600D 56FF 9EA4 E984 6C49
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 57north-discuss mailing list
>> 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
>> http://lists.57north.co/listinfo/57north-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Iain R. Learmonth" <irl at fsfe.org>
> To: 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:29:54 +0100
> Subject: Re: [57north-discuss] 57N taking political positions
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 09:50:30PM +0100, Robert McWilliam wrote:
> > What 57N collectively does/agrees with/says is different from what
> > individual or groups of members or directors do.
>
> Not really. The space doesn't have any opinions on anything. The space is
> its members and will inherit the opinions of its members. In order to make
> this a more representative platform, tweeting will soon be opened up to
all
> members via hackr.
>
> Usernames will be prefixed, or optionally twitter handles, to all tweets.
>
> > I see a big difference between sharing information on technology (part
> > of the founding purpose of the space) and campaigning on political
> > issues.
>
> I do not. The very act of sharing that information is, in the same way the
> existence of the space is, a political statement.
>
> Iain.
>
> --
> e: irl at fsfe.org w: iain.learmonth.me
> x: irl at jabber.fsfe.org t: +447875886930
> c: MM6MVQ g: IO87we
> p: 1F72 607C 5FF2 CCD5 3F01 600D 56FF 9EA4 E984 6C49
>
> _______________________________________________
> 57north-discuss mailing list
> 57north-discuss at lists.57north.co
> http://lists.57north.co/listinfo/57north-discuss
>
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